Empathetic Presence
Empathetic Presence is a podcast to liberate our voices, from silencing systems, speaking anxiety, and over-thinking. We don’t need more Executive Presence. We need empathetic, present leadership more than ever. Hosted by Self-Expression Strategist Lee Bonvissuto, each episode will share tools to help us express ourselves in big moments and feature interviews with empathetic experts who are creating cultures where we can all be heard.
Empathetic Presence
Healing Through Ancestral Wisdom with Ssanyu Birigwa
Welcome back to Empathetic Presence. Today I'm sitting down with my dear friend Ssanyu Birigwa, a Columbia-trained narrative medicine clinician and 80th generation indigenous bone healer whose practice bridges ancestral wisdom with embodied presence.
In this conversation, Ssanyu shares how deep listening creates reciprocity between ourselves and others, why taking off our masks is both necessary and sometimes unsafe, and how connecting with ancestral knowledge can help us slow down in this fast world.
We explore the intersection of narrative medicine and indigenous healing practices, discuss why qualitative research matters as much as quantitative data, and examine how high-achieving individuals can access the tools within themselves to heal and accelerate beyond their wildest dreams.
In This Episode:
- How Narrative Medicine teaches clinicians and leaders to be truly present with others
- The practice of unmasking and why safety must come first
- What it means to be a bone healer and how this lineage guides Ssanyu's work
- Why our evolution doesn't require more input—it requires wisdom about when to engage and when to simply be
- How to leverage resources collectively so more of us can feel safe taking off the mask
- The power of sharing lived stories as an antidote to institutional silencing
Ssanyu was born with healing hands—the proud descendant of Ugandan bone healers dating back more than 80 generations. Growing up between Newton, Massachusetts and East Africa, she witnessed the precision of Western medicine alongside the wisdom of ancestral healing practices that had sustained her lineage for centuries.
After a health crisis left her partially paralyzed and the death of her uncle and surrogate father, she began asking the questions that would shape her life’s work: How do we listen to our bodies to understand the truth of our emotions? How do we heal physical pain by accessing the stories trapped within us? How do we bridge clinical rigor with ancestral knowing?
This inquiry led her to Columbia University’s Narrative Medicine program, where she earned her master’s degree and received the 2016-2017 Narrative Medicine Fellowship. She now serves as Adjunct Professor at Columbia and lectures at Columbia Irving Medical Center on the intersection of spirituality and health.
As Co-founder & CEO of Narrative Bridge, Ssanyu brings narrative medicine training to organizations seeking to integrate deep listening and embodied wisdom into leadership. She created the Pause3™ Method framework rooted in her lineage of bone healing and narrative medicine and leads the Resonance Lab, an annual practicum for leaders integrating these modalities into their own work.
She has lectured and taught at institutions including the Sorbonne, Johns Hopkins, Kripalu, NYU, and led programs for the Soros Foundation in Uganda and Rwanda. She also maintains a private practice for leaders. This work is one of refinement, excavating what lives beneath burnout, disconnection, and inherited patterns to restore embodied presence and ancestral coherence.
Through The Sunday Pause, her weekly newsletter, she shares contemplations on narrative medicine, ancestral healing, and what the bones already know.
In Luganda, her father’s tongue, her name means “happiness, joy”—the energy she brings to this work and to the people she serves.
Substack: @ssanyubirigwa & @resonancelab
Welcome back to Empathetic Presence. I'm your host Lee, and today I get the pleasure of sitting down with my dear friend, Ssanyu Birigwa. Ssanyu is a Columbia trained narrative medicine clinician and an 80th generation indigenous bone healer. Ssanyu's practice serves those who understand that healing requires both ancestral wisdom and embodied presence, a reconciliation available nowhere else. Ssanyu work is driven by a core philosophy that we have the ability to heal ourselves. I first met Ssanyu on a very cold, dark morning about 10 years ago, and meeting her has brought so much light into my life. I'm excited to talk to Ssanyu today about how we can heal ourselves. How we move through this moment with as much compassion and connection as we can and what the future brings, when we can allow our stories to heal ourselves. Welcome Ssanyu.
Ssanyu:Thank you Lee. It's so great to be here.
Lee:I have felt drawn to you and your work since I met you over 10 years ago, and I was wondering, can you tell our audience a bit about who you are and the work you do?
Ssanyu:Um, and I want to say the energy that you and I had when we first met Felt very ancient. And like, I've known this human before, you know? Um. Definitely a place for me to reflect in on what my work is, and part of my work is making connection, being really intentional about the connections I do make too, and I bring that. Discernment, I think might be a good word to use to my how I environments, conversations. Actually move the needle into doing the work. You know, so many of us have experienced probably in our lives many times over, um, jobs where you are making you actually use the things that you make and. I find that the work of narrative storytelling, the clinical practice of narrative medicine, which is a, a, a practice, a mythology, um, a, a method to help clinicians and physicians to be present with their Patients, and true compassion, and true listening, deeply listening principle of narrative medicine, clinical practice. And from that training, I've been able to witness what to be present, you know, be in a boardroom present, um, where you're. Actively listening to the other. Why? Because you have the tools within yourself to deeply listen to yourself, which creates this beautiful reciprocity of listening and receiving and giving, and listening, receiving, Just like this constant movement. I, I liken it to the figure the infinity side, the lame skit, like the ways in which that movement is drawn up and over and down and around. And where can that possibly take us. It takes us somewhere because I curious beings and when we become curious from a very authentic place, we, we are exposing ourselves. And when we expose ourselves, others to see us in a light. I hope that is quite authentic and. We are being brave about that authentic part and doctors and a what I am helping system is to to be with the other, to have. Been told because other moments in were most focused on the chart or on the diagnosis or on the illness opposed to the wholeness and fullness of this individual who carries with them story carries with them experiences that probably attribute to some of the discomfort or the dis-ease they are feeling now in this doctor's office. So what do I do? I, I am an architect. I liken that to looking at architecture framework, one that really allows and institutions to fulfill their mission with I am a deep listener. I am an empath. from a bone healers who believed and understood the of wisdom in the body and the and that. that we. Can not pull from, but connect with. So we're connecting with this embodied information that truly, I believe us understand more so Other people's lives and our lives and our family's lives. Um, and that to me is about creating healthier communities.
Lee:Wow, Ssanyu and that reciprocity, that energy that you're talking about, I felt it so strongly. Not only the first morning that I met you, but when you've come to my town to work with local activists in my community, I felt it. At every networking event we've been to together every time I've seen you speak and work, and can you talk about. Like who you serve. I hear the work around narrative medicine, but I know that your work goes so much beyond healthcare.
Ssanyu:Yes it does. And thank you for, for. Guiding that question because what's really important for me and my purpose is to bring work of narrative medicine. Um, I like to describe it from, from the gates, you know, of Columbia. Um,'cause there are only two places in the world that you can get a master's in science degree in narrative medicine out into the world. So you just mentioned I work with local activists, whether it's here in the us. Or on the continent of Africa. Um, I work with that focus in on authenticity, trust, resilience within the workplace, within leadership models. work with individuals, um, on how to refine the tools, um, that they have in their toolbox as to. The ways in which they have developed their own leadership skills and to looking to refine and maybe even deepen into, um, rituals and practices that are going to move them in the next iteration of their lives. Um, whether it's their personal lives or professional lives. I work with young people. I love mentoring, um, young people in the world to. Find, you know, what is their purpose? How are they going to achieve their, their desires and create the vision of success for themselves? Um, using the tools of, of storytelling, of indigenous knowledge and wisdom and practices to really be the highest performer that one can be. I mean, you know, Lee, we. We have met, um, in spaces and places where we've watched people literally perform, which they think is attracting, you know, but in fact it's repelling. Um, you know, so I work with people to take off the mask, um, to understand that. Maybe they have been wearing a mask all this time, that which they thought they were being truthful and authentic with themselves and others. Um, and that's just a really, I think, wonderful place to be. Um, I was just working with a, um, an individual this afternoon, and so I do one-on-one work, not just, you know, community building and, um, you know, uh. Corporate, you know, uh, workshops and trainings. Um, I do work with, you know, individuals one-on-one, and we talked about fear and basis of power that comes from being in a place of fear, when we can acknowledge we are fear, we, we are fearing something, and then we just go into that fear nonetheless. Like we just go there. Um. And what, what happens when we do that, can be such a, a teacher to us and also illuminate far greater experiences than we probably could have ever imagined. That is for our highest and greatest good. That's that, that's, that's the deliciousness I think of the work that I do is that I get to be a witness of not just. The other, but myself this space of making connection deeply, listening to the other and having the willingness and capacity to sit in my own discomfort so I can hold space for an individual who might be moving through discomfort themselves. is a reason why I did not become a physician. One, I don't test well, but two, being a physician, I am bonded and blinded by an oath which does not allow me to share my own personal stories. to me, I think is the most potent piece of the work that I do, is I can. one story and two, walk beside them and share parts of my lived experience that perhaps may inspire them, feel a little bit more supported, curious, and those opportunities to share my personal story as a way to connect. Other, to be able to then usually what happens, receive the other's story in kind. and is there a way that we can start to use that experience of telling, receiving story a tool in making change in the world? You know, do things differently. we just have to. we were taught, even as young people, is useful for youth right now.
Lee:Right, right, right. I keep saying to so many of my clients, like, what got us here is not what's gonna get us to the next place. Right. And you're even what you just said is, again, that reciprocity, this exchange, this dynamic movement and you know what you are speaking to is like our whole selves, right. Of helping people take off those masks. And so much of our American. Culture, especially at work, is about really like siloing ourselves, right? And like leaving some of us outside. And of course that's impacting underrepresented people, most of all. And it's benefiting certain people more than others. But can you talk about this unmasking, and particularly in the context of work or the other roles that we play, and why is this important?
Ssanyu:Yes, and I'll begin with a short story. The practice of narrative medicine is to use art and music and prose literature, the the voice even to elicit something within us that has been perhaps dormant. So in my practice, whether it's. In university settings or one-on-one teaching or trainings in different institutions and industries. I'm always pulling out something that I hope that can resonate with There is a poem by Maya Angelou. We wear the Masks and she recites it, and you can find it on YouTube, and I find it very powerful, not only to listen and watch her recite this poem, but to then read the poem itself. And so why I bring this process out to sit with. Her words, the tone that she uses, and then to then read the words is because many of us have put on masks with our family, we have been told we are marrying a mask when we may think we are not. We literally wore masks. From 2020 to 2023, of us I see are still wearing masks. I live in New York City. I'm seeing witnessing people with the masks on. What does a mask do? Well, it, it covers something up. It hides These masks that we are using, the, the, the proverbial mask and also the physical mask is, is, is a tool for silence, So how many of us have felt we have been silenced, or we are actively silencing ourselves because we're either too afraid. To use our voice too, afraid to share our opinions and ideas do not feel supported if we do do that, is be expressive and vibrant individuals who have something to say, aren't worried about saying the right thing, but more so want to have dialogue. Right. know, I shared this with you and with others about, you know, my first experience in corporate America. I was working in IT and being the liaison between the business sector because I understood both languages, right? So there is a language that finance has that technology not. Information departments do not use, shall I say? And sometimes there needs to be a translator. Well, I remember feeling so disillusioned, you know, I was young. I was like, oh, I can translate and help these people work together. Well, quite frankly, these two people had, had, had had put on a mask for As opposed to taking off their mask and being like, well, let's see how we communicate with one another. Forget about Ssanyu, honestly. Like, but let's, let's take off these masks and just figure out how to communicate. And, and, and we don't often do this when we're trying to effect change in the or in an institution because we have believe that what got us here going to get us to the next phase. actually do believe what got us here is going to get us to the next phase.
Lee:Hmm.
Ssanyu:you just said you tell your clients what got
Lee:Yeah.
Ssanyu:is not going to get us to the next place.
Lee:Right.
Ssanyu:That's the truth. the truth of things, then hiding behind what we call, you know, the mass that Maya Andrew was speaking of. could also be laughter. How many times have we found ourselves laughing at someone's when truly we are uncomfortable
Lee:Oh yeah.
Ssanyu:with that comment?
Lee:Yeah.
Ssanyu:How many of us, and these are all embodied experiences that are happening in real time as we are using our words. Because the body
Lee:Absolutely.
Ssanyu:keeps score.
Lee:Yeah.
Ssanyu:So I work with individuals one-on-one. Often I will weave this into the trainings that I, that I give at different institutions and, you know, boards, et cetera, because. To arrive in a place with people that you may or may not know very well is very important to me. So we are all at the same, what I would say, energetic level. At the same place. We're arriving at the same place, whether it's location, literally, or physically. The chair that you're sitting in, let's recognize where we are. I don't know if you re recall. you know. Years ago, like, you know, you get called into these meetings, what have you, and before the last person has even sat down, the person is like, you know, who's leading the meeting? It's like, okay, so let's get right to it.
Lee:Yeah.
Ssanyu:And I'm like, okay, shoot. Can I just get comfortable in my seat? Can I, you know,
Lee:Yeah.
Ssanyu:can, can I like let go of what I just did 10 seconds ago? No. Jump
Lee:But that would assume, right? That would assume that we are fully human and are fully ourselves at work. And there seems to be this like ongoing idea that we're not allowed to be fully ourselves. Right?
Ssanyu:Uh,
Lee:And how do we. How do we encourage this unmasking when like the senior leaders or many others are fighting dead set against it.
Ssanyu:so dead set. The fight is very, um. Real, as we will say, right? It's, it's, it's something that
Lee:Yeah.
Ssanyu:feeling.
Lee:Yeah.
Ssanyu:and I don't have the answer to that, what I We being asked to make choices every single day, and my goal is to help individuals, communities, to make the right choice. Every day for themselves, for their communities, and sometimes to keep one safe, we will have to put that mask on. we've seen this in different organizations, different communities, particularly the. In the Bipoc and the LGBTQ plus community, we've seen that sometimes it's not actually safe to take the mask off, anything that I can do to to be of allyship and support to individuals who might not feel safe to take the mask off, then I believe I made the right choice for me and that person. So if we can. Then get more of us who help individuals take the mask off. Then we have like a whole, we got a whole team. So can we create like a team? Can we start to create like, you know, I'm, you know, I think eso esoterically sometimes of like, can we create a whole country, like, you know, like enough of us to just be
Lee:Yeah.
Ssanyu:you feel safe. To take
Lee:Hmm.
Ssanyu:off and maybe
Lee:Right.
Ssanyu:that's like leveraging resources from me instead of you today, Lee, because
Lee:Yeah.
Ssanyu:safe for you to use your resource today, but it's safe for me to use my
Lee:That's the thing is the safety. And we can see it in organizations, we can see it in community, and there's so many reasons to not feel safe right now. And so I, I understand the need for protection, and yet I know that our future is in our continued connection and as you say, embodied presence.
Ssanyu:Yeah. Yes. I think of my mother and my father at this time, honestly, because I've witnessed my father go through war. So my father's Ugandan, and um, he fought in the bush. Um. Back in the eighties to free his country. And there's risk that comes with that, right? Like there's deep risk here. You're, you're, you're in the jungle. You're, you're fighting, you know, people that you've never met before. you could do what Well, to feel freedom that that was, that was. thing I think of my mother who fought against discrimination and became the first in many fields, um, you know, she was one of the first women of color to be hired by Pan-American Airlines back in the sixties, early seventies. She was the be, you know, runner up in these different, you know, pageants that she did in, in, in high school right before college. Um, seeing where she was being. Stripped away of what was hers, um, because of the color of her sin. I've witnessed my, you know, self growing up in different, in a different time where we were the first, you know, family of color in the neighborhood and having to, um, contend with people calling me names, particularly the end name, and my mother saying, you know. What to, what, what to do when Someone says and I was like, oh, for real. Like, but that
Lee:Yes.
Ssanyu:to, right, that was her way to empower me with my
Lee:Yeah.
Ssanyu:So I still sit with, I don't have the actual answer, but I have ways to, to, to chip at the ish to chip at the. The, the, the, the bedrock where what we did to get us here needs to be actually destroyed.
Lee:Oh wow. Wow. And it, thank you so much for sharing your experience because it helps me understand this wonderful intersection between narrative medicine, which you've told us about, and then that you are an 80th generation indigenous bone healer. Can you talk about that ancestry? That lineage that. Gift a bit more and tell us more about your healing.
Ssanyu:Yes, I, I understood this lineage when I was a kid. Um, you know, going back to East Africa, for the summers. I lived there for several years during middle school and high school. Um, so I, I was fortunate enough to, to connect with my ancestry land. Um, we have. place that has a, most of all the generations actually. Yeah, the tombs. We have tombs there as well. So like I could visually see my ancestors, if that makes any sense. Visually, see where they're buried and traditionally be. you come into the country, one of the first things you're supposed to do is pay your respects. So I like to like, okay, within 48 hours, 72, at the most, I must make a journey home. A journey home to our land, to the burial ground, respect. I have been charged with that ritual ever since I was a kid and. Also too had experiences as a child, as a young adult, um, where I could feel things, see things, um, think of something, dream of it, and it happened the next day. Um, feel as if I'm being spoken to by, you know, someone who I've never met, but I felt like I knew very much so, and that would happen whilst I was. Walking down a street or swimming. I, I, I was a competitive swimmer, so I would often have, um, information given to me in order to figure out how to win the race. That's actually when I first really understood like there's some, there's something bigger than me that's happening within me or around me, and I didn't really have language for it. what I will say is that my. Parents both believe deeply in spirit and in in divine love. And in that being who we are doesn't live outside of us, we, it's in us. And so being ushered into different spaces of prayer, of meditation, um, of, of giving. Libations to the ancestors, I mean. That's a whole nother story though. The story of the bone healer came when I woke up, paralyzed from my fingers to my shoulders about 15, 13 years ago, and I didn't know what had happened. It was very scary to wake up not being able to use a part of your body. I remember speaking to my father, who is the chief of the bone healers at that time. You know, when you know things, but you don't really like. Embody them or, or make note. You know, you hear the thing, the the thing, the thing is being told to you and you're like, mm-hmm I understand. And then you keep going. You just keep moving on to something else in life, right? So I understood that my father was the chief, but I didn't really connect to it being of the bone healers of this shamanic lineage that I come from until I woke up paralyzed That was when the student was ready for the teacher moment. And as I'm, you know, there's a lot that I went through during this time. It was about five months of, of, paralysis and going to the doctors, not getting diagnosed, coming back, doing acupuncture. You know, there's, a whole nother story in itself as well, but. for me to stay focused on the bone healer itself and that experience of now being ushered into the lineage when I was ready to hear what I needed to hear. And that's when my father opened up to me and for me the stories that I needed to hear, the rituals I needed to, to connect with. Um, and that's. When the journey began of me returning home to East Africa to Uganda, particularly with a different intention, and that intention was to connect with the soil in a different way for me to connect with the ancestors and, understand there is a lineage that I'm a part of that has been asked by the community to help them. Be, well, know the story of the Bone Healer is in the Buganda clan, which is where I'm from. We have a king and the Kabaka is his name, and the Kabaka lives in a palace. And in this palace he would. Hit his servants and sometimes break their bones. When that would happen, they would call in my family, my lineage to not just put their bones back together, but to serve their spirit and help them beyond the hurt and the dis-ease and the trauma. And so there's a story of the bone healers. We connect with the moon stars and. Cosmos, that which directly connected to our home that we call swe. which illuminates and gives us information that allows us to move through the world to help others. And that literal house of is where people of the village like to sleep in. If they were feeling ill or. You know, sometimes one would say they are, you know, possessed or, you know, um, maybe there is issue with, you know, fertility with a, with a family member. They would come to our house and, and sleep there, and the, the stories are, they would leave that house and they would feel better. Now, these stories when told in my father's tongue of Uganda, they're, you know. Also illuminating some parables here, right? And illuminating some lessons to be learned. And part of that bone healer in me is to share knowledge and wisdom of these parables that which my ancestors left to then guide. you, me, those whom we love are connecting with back to that indigenous knowledge and wisdom that which we all come from. We all have it. And that's part of the Bone Healers mission is to be the architect or the guide back to who we truly are. And from that process of doing that, we do heal. Internally, I, I do work with individuals who have literal ailments in the body and the bones, and also healing the spirit, excuse me, healing the soul. Learning about in which we can down and methodically make better decisions because we're not rushing through. The acceleration that life is especially in the Western world, you know, there is the combination of true. Fixing of an ailed body through the bones and to connecting to the past trauma and stories that live in our body, blood and bones, order to accelerate the mental, spiritual soul that we all can do. We just. Sometimes don't know how to pull up those tools with from within us. And I find that high achieving individuals who learn these practices are able to not only accelerate beyond their wildest dreams, they're also teaching it to those who they're connected to. So this knowledge and wisdom is being shared. It's not supposed to be siloed in an institution. And I can say that by being a part of one, and I'm gonna use me as an example to answer the question around how do we take the mask off? I just giggled after I said I too am a part of an institution. Why? Well, that's a mass that sometimes I find myself contending with. Of the professor lecturer and the person Ssanyu. And what I, what I have done more often than not, excuse me, is integrate the two. And because I'm sitting. And reflecting on what it does mean to be a part of this institution, uncomfortable because my institution is unable to support the very people that are doing the good work, and that saddens me, So here in lies what we're doing now We're talking, right? We're connecting. You have a platform and we need to continuously share our lived stories. Um. We, we must use technology and different ways to make connections globally with individuals who are doing the work as well. You know, and what is doing the work well, being in places where you may feel comfortable shaking things up. That's doing the work. Or maybe you're there to support and, and bring safety for individuals who want to shake things up, but don't necessarily feel they can alone perhaps the story that you share that gives someone the opportunity to feel capable of using their voice. Their authentic, true voice to speak up not only for the other, but for themselves. We can continuously do different things, right? We need to, we need to read stories of people doing some, you know, simple. Maybe it's not even doing big, you know, audacious things. Maybe it's just simply being available for someone to talk. Through their issues. You know, maybe that's the, maybe that's the big innovation that we need to, you know, focus which is deeply listening, asking people to share their stories, asking people to, you know, share their community and connections and contacts. Remember the Rolodex back in the day. I, you know, I think.
Lee:Yeah,
Ssanyu:Some of my mentees would not know what a Rolodex is, but you know,
Lee:I.
Ssanyu:we share that that Rolodex of information and context of individuals who fi financially can help us move the needle forward. This is what we do need. We need finances, we need support. We need collaborations. We need partnerships with organizations that are willing to do things differently. We are in a time where, like you said, what got us here is not going to get us to the next phase, next place. So do we really believe in innovation then? And if an organization does, then prove it. Hire individuals that don't do things the same way that you do, but get results and they can prove those results. You know, there's a lot of, the clinical space it's about, you know, quantitative research. Well, qualitative research is very important too. The collection of individual stories and understanding their lived experiences is just as good as the quantitative data. Love it. I love it when they both come together. That is
Lee:Yeah.
Ssanyu:but it's just as strong. That qualitative method just as strong and potent. As the numbers,
Lee:Yeah.
Ssanyu:is.
Lee:Yeah. It's what brings our humanity and our integrity, as you said.
Ssanyu:Yes. Yeah.
Lee:I think that's what has moved me so much about your work is that. It is about the, the, again, that reciprocity, it's about the energy between us. It's about our own relationship to ourselves and our communities. And if it, is it okay if I quote you?
Ssanyu:Yeah.
Lee:you, you wrote in a newsletter a few weeks ago, you wrote, your evolution doesn't require more input. It requires more wisdom about when to engage and when to simply be. And that is what I've learned from you, my friend is a deep listening and a, a stillness and an ability to be. More present in myself and with others, and I'm so grateful for your work and for your human and for who you are in the world.
Ssanyu:Thank you, Lee. I that and appreciate. The energy that which we are exchanging and allowing to occur between right now. And, excuse me, what we decided when we first met, which was. Connection was important, and so I've learned so much by being connected with you by coming into your community and connecting with your community members and the leaders who love where they live and want to see their community healthy, and also learning from you and being able to. Ask questions and get curious and ideate with you and expand both our missions in this world so we can be louder. I think that's also too the, the intention. I think that's
Lee:So we can be louder.
Ssanyu:we can be louder and I think maybe that is
Lee:Yeah.
Ssanyu:part of the antidote. your have an answer to it, but perhaps there's an antidote, which is we gotta get louder.
Lee:Yeah. Yeah. And a big part of that I think is through the tools and the methods that you teach. It's really being able to sit in ourselves so that we can amplify
Ssanyu:Yeah.
Lee:ourselves and each other.
Ssanyu:Yeah.
Lee:And I will say my friend, we met in the most corporate setting I could have possibly imagined, and I think both of us were like, get me the hell outta here. You know? We were like, we were drawn to each other's energy. I think because we are two people who have really decided to take off the mask. And it's really powerful to just to be in space with you and to know you, and I'm so grateful for you.
Ssanyu:Thank you, Lee. Thank you for creating the space to share and connect, um, not just with you, but those who listen to your, to your podcasts and who follow the work that you're doing in the world. Um. That's probably the, the best way to get loud is to have, um, your friends, your peers, your colleagues, amplify the work that we're doing. So thank you.
Lee:Oh, and speaking of Ssanyu, how can people find you in your work?
Ssanyu:So you can find ssanyubirigwa.com. Um, and I really am loving the energy of LinkedIn. Um, so you can find me on LinkedIn at Ssanyu Birigwa, I do some, you know. within a container of individuals who want to refine their toolbox, as I say. Um, and who are really looking at that, you know, um, way in which they're showing up for themselves and others as a powerful, um, part of themselves in this resonance lab that I have, um, that we meet twice a month and it's a place of connection and community working within the tools of narrative medicine and indigenous wisdom. And then you can also find me on. Substack. Um, if anyone is interested in reading some of my own personal musings, um, not, they're not edited down for like, you know, newsletters or they're just really just my thoughts and connections and oftentimes, um, channeled wisdom and knowledge that, um, I'm sharing with the world. So lots of different places. Um, and of course email. Um, I do answer my email. And I am proud of that. So I do get reflections back from individuals who, um, read my newsletters. I send out a Sunday pause newsletter every Sunday. I've been doing this for about six months now. um, that's also another way to, to feel into the work and to the powerfulness of, um, the potent. Energy that comes from slowing down by taking a pause, by taking a breath and focusing on oneself.
Lee:Potent energy of slowing down, and I will be sure to link to all of those links in the show notes. Please find Ssanyu work. It is so powerful and so needed in this moment, and thank you so much for coming on the podcast my friend.
Ssanyu:Thank you, Lee.
