Finding Hope Through Gratitude with Abigail Somma

In times of rising authoritarianism and social upheaval, how do we find hope without falling into toxic positivity? This week, I sit down with my dear friend Abigail Somma, founder of Gratitude Buddies and mindfulness teacher, to explore gratitude as a tool for resistance and refocusing.

Abbie taught me about loving-kindness meditation nearly a decade ago, and her approach to gratitude as a practice—not just a feeling—completely shifted how I understand presence and self-compassion.

In this conversation, we explore:

• Why gratitude becomes accessible in moments of crisis (and why it's harder during prolonged depression)
• How to practice loving-kindness toward people who disagree with us
• The difference between empathy and toxic positivity
• How workplace gratitude has evolved from transaction to inner wellness—and what comes next
• Gratitude Buddies: a platform for skill-sharing and community building beyond traditional capitalism
• Why we need "compassionate wise action" instead of judgment
• Using gratitude as a refocusing tool in moments of conflict

Abigail Somma (Abbie) is the founder of Gratitude Buddies, a platform where people swap small joys and meaningful skills. She has coached and trained hundreds of people in mindfulness, gratitude and emotional wellbeing, and delivered workshops to international organizations, businesses, and leading universities. Previously, she worked in international policy as a speechwriter for business leaders, celebrities and multiple United Nations figureheads. Her writing has appeared in Scary Mommy, Foreign Policy, the Globe and Mail and others. She is also a poet and playwright, with degrees from Johns Hopkins University and Villanova University. Abbie lives in Vienna with her two children. Learn more at gratitudebuddies.com and abigailsomma.com.

Timestamps:

• 0:00 Introduction and how we met through Priya Parker
• 3:00 Gratitude vs. toxic positivity
• 8:00 Is gratitude innate or learned?
• 11:00 Practicing loving-kindness toward difficult people
• 15:00 Finding balance between empathy and effectiveness
• 17:00 What is Gratitude Buddies?
• 23:00 Europe vs. US: different responses to social regression
• 28:00 Technology, AI, and staying human
• 33:00 How to stay grounded in uncertain times

Transcript

Lee: 0:05

Hi friends. Welcome back to Empathetic Presence. I'm your host Lee, and we need to talk about how we can find hope and meaning in this moment. There's a lot going on and today I'm so excited to sit down with my friend Abigail Somma. Abbie is the founder of Gratitude Buddies, a platform where people swap small joys and meaningful skills, and she has coached. Hundreds of people in mindfulness, gratitude and emotional wellbeing. Abbie is one of the first people who first taught me about mindfulness, and Abbie was one of the first people who I learned gratitude from as a concept, and I'm really excited to talk to her. She also previously worked in international policy as a speech writer for the UN and other Figureheads, and here's my conversation with Abbie. Welcome, Abbie. How you doing?

Abbie: 1:01

Thanks, Lee. Happy to be here. I'm doing well.

Lee: 1:04

You are across the world from me right now. You're in Vienna, right?

Abbie: 1:10

Yes. I live in Vienna, Austria almost for 10 years now.

Lee: 1:15

Wow. So you and I first met, that must have been 20, 20, 20 15. Was it 2015 when we first met, you think?

Abbie: 1:24

I think so it was right before we moved here. That was the year before we moved here. And actually I, I think I had just gotten into teaching mindfulness at that time. I was finishing a certification and yes, and, and then our paths crossed around then I.

Lee: 1:41

I had just started meditating a few years before that and I was struggling with it. And I even remember we were introduced by Priya Parker, our mutual friend. Right.

Abbie: 1:53

Yeah. Yeah, that's She introduced us because she thought, oh, speech writer and public speaking coach, they should come together and she

Lee: 2:03

Yeah,

Abbie: 2:04

make something beautiful.

Lee: 2:06

it's amazing Priya, as the, the real expert in terms of gathering people, right? And she was able to bring us together and I remember going to a, a. Meditation class of yours, and we were in Long Island City. We were in a back garden, and it was from you that I first heard the concept of metta, of loving kindness meditation, and you were the first person who really introduced gratitude to me as a concept.

Abbie: 2:36

Yeah, that's cool. That's, that's really, yeah. Interesting and exciting and uh, something that we could definitely go into a little bit deeper. Uh, I think Americans really know. Gratitude through Thanksgiving. Like that's how they, that's their, their framework for gratitude. And it's a good framework because I don't think, uh, the only other country that has, uh, a has Thanksgiving that a holiday dedicated to gratitude is Canada, as far as I know. Could be others. Yeah.

Lee: 3:06

It's interesting and for me, when you first introduced that as, as like a. A concept, a tool really is how you introduced it. I found it that it was the missing link for me with meditation and mindfulness that I didn't have that part of it and I was struggling. I was actually like really hard on myself about my inability to focus and be present. And so when I met you and I learned about. Mindfulness and gratitude and meta and caring for ourselves. It, it really was a shift, Abbie, I was able to start practicing in a real way. So I'm grateful. I'm grateful to you.

Abbie: 3:48

Yeah, that's interesting. If we think of mindfulness, in terms of presence and observation, moment it, it may not fill, I. What we need it to. It may not, you know, it may not give us everything that we need. Like we need to round it out with other things like with self-compassion, with loving kindness, with gratitude, you know, to get the whole picture. uh, yeah. So gratitude itself is a really interesting concept and I think that many people find it saccharine and annoying. And so I have to, you know. I have to work with that side of it myself. When you're, when you're struggling, when you're having a really hard day, when you're in pain, you're not interested in gratitude, you're, you're interested in venting, you're interested in having a, a breakdown. So, uh, it, you know, we need many tools in our toolbox because there are gonna be many different experiences that require different, uh, you know, different responses.

Lee: 4:52

Yeah. And you know, in this moment when we're seeing so much rising authoritarianism across the world, particularly in this country and in these hard moments, I think you're right, gratitude can feel inaccessible. And I, I really wanna talk about it today as a tool, as a refocusing tool. I know that. I was in an accident, you know, almost three years ago now, it'll be the A, the anniversary is in a few weeks. And I remember even in that moment with a broken pelvis and a broken sacrum feeling incredibly grateful because that was what was tangibly available to me as a focusing tool. And so tell me, Abbie, like what brings you to gratitude? What's the power behind this word?

Abbie: 5:41

Uh, so well, so what you said is really interesting and I just want to comment on that first, is I was doing a presentation or preparing a presentation around the time of the Los Angeles wildfires, and many people on the news talking about their experience and gratitude comes up over and over and over again because you're in this place where you've just lost everything and you need to. It's, it's so must be so human like. Like, oh, thank God I have my, my, my pet. Thank God I still have this, whatever it may be. Those moments really crystallize our values and our priorities and that's where we gratitude comes in because we recognize what really matters and what we really care about. So those moments of, of, of immense hardship are ironically some of. Of those which we, where we feel the most gratitude. I I, or like, like this kind of sudden hardship, I think when it really becomes inaccessible is prolonged depression. I think that's when it becomes really hard to access, uh, when we're, or grief, uh, things like that. So, but back to your other question, how did I come to it? how did I come to it? first came to meditation and to mindfulness. Meditation was extremely therapeutic to me in, uh, a period of depression. It really helped me dismantle my thinking and to I. To start to rebuild new ways of understanding myself and the world that weren't so destructive. And so meditation was, was really like a lifesaver

Lee: 7:23

life.

Abbie: 7:24

And I had a meditation community. I had my, my little community called the Mindful Goods. And then, uh, and then at some point, you know, I started using gratitude in a way a lot of people do. You, you, you come to this understanding that, wow, I can, I can cultivate. Wellbeing and positive emotions within myself, like no matter what's happening in the world, I have that ability often, if not always, to cultivate wellbeing. And one of the ways to do that is through gratitude. I.

Lee: 7:58

It's really powerful, that taking back of control and it's not, you know, this toxic positivity thing. It's not religion, you know, it's, it's something that almost feels innate. Is it innate to us to go to gratitude? Does it happen naturally? Is it something we have to practice?

Abbie: 8:19

Uh, maybe both. I mean, there are definitely differences in cultures around this concept of gratitude. Not everybody understands it the same way. Uh, sometimes when I've been giving workshops, people would say, you know, I wanted to thank somebody, I wanted to thank my parents. And they got so awkward they shut it down, you know, so it opens up this space of vulnerability that's not always comfortable for everybody. Uh, so. know, I think if you're looking at a sunset or you're looking at something magnificent, that gratitude connected to awe is innate, there is another kind of gratitude that can be practiced, can be cultivated, can change who we are, and can move us from this space of depression to appreciation, even though life is hard. So all those things coexist.

Lee: 9:17

It is really interesting that almost conscious practice of it, right? And I even see this with my clients. One of the. Tools we use when someone is put on the spot or they feel like they're in a moment of conflict or they feel like they might get defensive. One of the tools is to refocus on gratitude and to thank the person for bringing it up, even in a moment of conflict, to thank them for their perspective. And that's not an original idea, but it somehow makes us feel more powerful to cultivate gratitude. Have you found that?

Abbie: 9:51

I, I just like the way

Lee: 9:53

I like the way that you.

Abbie: 9:54

do that all the time, like, and I recommend it to people all the time as well, that when you get into a space of conflict, send that person good energy, wellbeing, happiness, wish them well, what, whatever the case may be, because we have energy fields between all of us, right? And so there's something powerful. I, I like the idea of thinking that you could do it in the moment, and I think that's definitely something that takes practice, um, to be able to immediately shift. I, I think it's certainly, possible, but it, it would probably take practice for a lot of people. Even, even for me, it would take practice.

Lee: 10:28

For me too, especially what you just said of, you know, sending love to people who wish us harm or sending love to people who we might not see eye to eye with. You know, in this moment of so much immense division in our society and so much growing hatred and fear, like how do we. Practice that. How do we protect our empathy and our hearts while still connecting with others who might disagree with us?

Abbie: 10:57

I remember when Vladimir Putin and his. His, whoever it is, invaded Ukraine. I thought, oh, I'm gonna practice loving kindness on him because in a way, we're, what we're hoping is that when we practice, that people's hearts will open and we have to have the belief that everybody has the potential for their heart to open. And, you know, in a, in a traditional. Buddhist practice. As I understand you begin this practice by focusing on the person who's easy to love. And that's, you know, I did did it with people recently, and they, they choose their pet for, for many people there's at least something or someone that's easy to love. And then we move to the neutral person. And the neutral person is really. Really powerful because it reminds us of all these people in our midst who we don't give a lot of our mental attention to, who are present in our lives, who are potentially supporting our lives in one way or another, adding to our lives. Smile to us when we, at us, when we get our groceries. So we'd be, you know, we pick one person, but then it's like we bring that person to life in a way that they weren't. So that's the second person. And then as we progress, we choose the person who we find difficult to love. And of course, that actually ends up often being a family member, someone really close to us who triggers us personally. Uh, but I think that when. When we keep practicing this, when this becomes like a skill for, we can, we can extend this to everybody and it does no harm to us actually. And it doesn't mean that we're, we're just complacent and we accept things, but we're, we're strong and we're resilient, and we act from a wiser center.

Lee: 12:42

Yeah, it brings me, you know, back to thinking about hope as an acts of resistance. You know, hope as a verb. Thinking about Audre Lorde, thinking about, you know, joy in this moment, cultivating joy on purpose in moments of turmoil and. And building empathy. It, it brings me to empathy too. And how does all of this relate to empathy?

Abbie: 13:08

Well, I mean, so in which context are you thinking? Are you thinking of empathy for the people that we feel I. A sense of, of resistance toward or toward our fellow

Lee: 13:19

I.

Abbie: 13:19

at large, or what, what are you

Lee: 13:21

Or even ourselves. I think in this moment, empathy is feeling hard in this moment. It feels like we have to armor up and protect ourselves and numb ourselves, and how can we possibly have empathy in this moment? And we're seeing so much vilification of the word empathy we're seeing. That word be, uh, attacked and weaponized. Elon Musk said that empathy is the greatest weakness of Western civilization, and it sounds to me like even the practice of gratitude is a, an empathy practice, but I wonder if you see it that way.

Abbie: 14:03

Well, I don't, I don't think that empathy is always the right response to everything

Lee: 14:09

Hmm.

Abbie: 14:10

well. It's funny, like I was walking down the street saying to myself the other day, would I, would

Lee: 14:15

Day.

Abbie: 14:15

be, I. Like extremely positive.'cause I meet people who are extremely positive and I find them to be not empathetic because they're so positive that they don't have the emotional bandwidth for anything that doesn't fit. And then, or would I rather be extremely empathetic? And the only answer I could come up with is neither. You have to have balance. Like the answer's really in the middle. It's about. like having the right response for the right time and to cultivating like a sense of balance. Because if you're overly empathetic, you're not effective, uh, and uh, and you don't, you don't yourself that space to have a. A beautiful moment. A meaningful moment because there's so much pain in the world. So it's really about cultivating the right, that right sense of equanimity and balance. And I once heard someone say that mindfulness is a kind of self empathy. So you're, you're quiet, you're present, and you are aware of what is going on with you in that moment, and you. And you bring, if you can bring self-compassion to that, then you're bringing a sense of empathy to yourself, which I think is really a, appropriate response when we're suffering and we're struggling, and if we could do all of this for five year olds, we probably wouldn't be in this situation that we're in. Right now, which is that we have adults who don't know how to self-soothe. They don't maybe know what they're feeling. They don't know how to respond. Uh, you know, I don't know, in a, in a, in a mature way to their feelings. So yeah, we have like this chaotic world for, for reasons that seem relatively simple to solve. You know, it's like, it's relatively simple.

Lee: 16:07

Yeah, totally. And a lot of the people who are currently dismantling so much of our, our society are in insecure and probably not connecting with their own gratitude. Right? Yeah, yeah.

Abbie: 16:22

You know, and again, that's gonna go back to balance too. And so it, it's like we have to have enough self-love and enough confidence to be like, okay, I have a right to be here, and yet I don't wanna be anybody's guru.

Lee: 16:33

Totally. And so, Abbie, can I ask you about gratitude buddies? Tell us what this is.

Abbie: 16:42

Yeah, so Gratitude buddies really came out of my mindfulness practice, uh, at some and, and the mindfulness practice of my community. And at some point I wanted to put them together maybe as meditation buddies where they could be accountable to one another, and they seemed not so interested in that as they were with gratitude buddies, like gratitude buddies. I think that sounds fun. People like it, it doesn't sound that hard. And so people, a few people sent it to friends of friends and, and they, they wrote to me and said they wanted a gratitude buddy. And they wrote these very beautiful reasons for wanting a gratitude buddy. Like they were separated from their family. And, uh, so I thought, oh, this is something people are interested in. And. And I decided to try to develop it. Uh, I don't have an engineering background. I don't have an engineer on staff. So the, the platform that I built initially as a way to practice gratitude together didn't live up to what I had wanted it to. And at the same time, there was something else that was making me wanna shift. I think it was because I was going through my own period of grief, around the time of, of having gratitude buddies. And though. Gratitude was actually helpful to me on some days. On some days it, it was, I had very mixed feelings about it. And then I was also looking at the macro picture at what's happening. So this presentation that I'm gonna be delivering on Monday, it's sort of looks at, for example, how, How gratitude has evolved in the workplace cultures. So if we look post-industrial and if we look, uh, 1980s and before this idea of, of gratitude was sort of built around transaction and built around loyalty. Like, I'll give you a job, you stay with me for forever. I'll give you a plaque after so many years, I'll give you a pension. So the, there wasn't this idea of the emotional component. Actively pursued. And that started to shift in around the nineties. There was a bunch of books that came out, much more attention to emotional intelligence in the interpersonal way. And then we moved from that into, uh, what started really growing around 2010, which is the inner work. And the inner wellbeing became really popular in workplace culture. And so, now we're looking at, at. Integration, but we have some additional components. And the additional components are, do these policies of recognition and and inner wellness match the internal human resources policies? Do we have anti-bullying? Do we have, uh, diversity, uh, we have, um, enough paid leave? Do we have, you know, uh, so, and then. The final component, I guess you might say is the ESG, the environment, the social and the governance, putting them all together, which has also became popular in the last 10, 15 years. we're looking at now gratitude as a system. And so for me, I'm, I'm seeing, well, what role can I play just beyond inner wellbeing when I know we're all interdependent and we're all connected and we have these, this kind of extractive capitalism that is. Is going to have to evolve. And so it's not that we're going to get rid of wealth or that we even should, but we have to expand our understanding of what resources look like, of what success looks like and how we support each other. And so now Gratitude buddies has. It has the inner wellbeing component, but it also is about the skill share and about coming together in, in a sense of offering. Like, I, I have this to offer and you have this. So it's, it's not replacing money, it's expanding resources so that, and maybe it, it builds our businesses. Somebody new sees what we can do, or we learn how to teach a new skill and we're coming together. And, and I like to keep it grounded in mindfulness and grounded in this kind of, um. This idea that we're showing up for each other. We recognize each other as humans first. Because what will happen in traditional networking, and even it happens in my platform, is somebody will say, yeah, but I don't have anything to offer. And I, I wanna say, well, when you're coming to this platform, we see you first as as a human, and everyone has something to offer.

Lee: 21:13

Wow, that is so powerful, Abbie. And just thinking about it from the personal level to the systemic level and you know, thinking about the way that mindfulness and meditation has like personally helped me rewire my mind. Or in your words, you said like dismantle thinking and create new ways of understanding the world that's less destructive. Like that we can take that. Micro moment and that we can start to move it into the macro societal issues because that is what's most important here, right? We can be mindful and we can be practicing this personally, but if we don't have ways to expand our resources and like have new models of growth, as you say, I think it's so powerful i'm curious too. I think, you know, in this society here in the States, we are certainly in this moment of retraction and, you know, maybe we were in this, you know, diversity, equity and inclusion, ex exploration and thinking about, as you said, ESG and all of these. Growth models, but it feels like we're now in a moment where it's retracting and it's going backwards and it's regressing and we, our systems are starting to reject the ex exact tools that can help us progress and move forward. Are you feeling that in Europe too? Are you seeing that as a global phenomenon or do you think that this is going to be a blip and we can continue to progress?

Abbie: 22:46

Well, europe, I think, I mean it's obviously got many different cultures and many different things happening, and I think because many places in Europe have. Deeper social roots. It is a little bit different. Like you don't, but, but you know, these, these far right parties are rising in many different countries and, and things are regressing, particularly in the US but in other places as well. And then what we like to think. Is that, uh, growth is not linear. And so you have these regressions, but they, they take us to an even higher level. And I think the question for us now is that, uh, know, how, how dark is it gonna get or how low are things gonna go? But you know, one, one of the things you said before about. Empathy when, when we're talking about mindfulness, one of the big components of mindfulness is moving into non-judgment. That is incredibly hard for the human to do. The human loves to judge. They love it. And you know what? You feel justified judging Sometimes. You're like, well, I have to judge this, or I have to, but, but I don't know that that I don't know that it helps. Uh, so I, I say that like our, all of our crazy energy is now coming to the surface. There is a good side to our crazy underbelly getting revealed because things need to be healed and uh, and so that has a positive to it as well. But I think into a space of compassionate wise action is so much more powerful. Then judgment.

Lee: 24:37

Compassionate wise action. Oh, I love that. I just love the, the duality of it, Abbie. It feels really necessary today. And you know, even the way you talk about gratitude and the gratitude buddies. Platform. It brings me to mutual aid and it brings me to what we're seeing on the ground when there is disaster and the ways that communities come together. What's happening in LA is incredibly beautiful and powerful, the rapid response work and the showing up for our communities. And so it brings us back to that question, you know, is this innate? Is this something that. We have in us in a natural way, and it's really beautiful to hear about it too.

Abbie: 25:25

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's funny because I think one could maybe argue that Darwinism was, was just a perspective in a way like that there's another perspective that human beings are just naturally meant to collaborate, but we almost need the right

Lee: 25:40

Wow.

Abbie: 25:40

incubator to, to collaborate and, and that incubator, I think again, starts when we're very small.

Lee: 25:48

Yeah, and I think that our universe could even be that incubator if we could have systems besides capitalism because that of course really works against so much of what you're talking about.

Abbie: 26:03

Well, we're gonna have to find a, a way forward that honors the designer who wants to make a new dress. We're gonna, you know, that has that creative impulse, but that, that's not only rewarding shareholders, like that's where the real rub is, as far as I see it is only rewarding shareholders once we, so what is that gonna look like? Is it gonna be employee owned businesses? Is it we, we have to, you know. We need an age of enlightenment because this is, is got, this has got a time limit on it. And so then I think of something like gratitude buddies, well, at least in the interim it, it offers different models. And it's funny'cause it's just going back to very ancient ways of, of connecting. But we're doing it now with more consciousness and more intention. So, um, yeah. I love it actually, because, because I'm running it, I'm like, oh, oh, that person needs babysitting. Yeah. Okay. Like, I wasn't expecting somebody to put babysitting up there, but I'm like, I think I could figure out how to do that for you. So it is, it's

Lee: 27:10

Wow.

Abbie: 27:10

it's just shifting the way that we think actually, and, and what's really available to us if, if we come together in this kind of open hearted, good spirited way, which is, I, I think, you know, we, we must. Trust people and, and then when we trust people, we bring out the best in them and not blindly, not like an idiot, but we must trust people, you know.

Lee: 27:33

Yeah, and you know, even what you're talking about with having, moving away from being just dependent on shareholders and this idea of like, how can we all be the beneficiaries of gratitude and generosity? It brings me back to thinking about AI too, and how when we are looking at technology, just as you know, a dehumanizing factor, as a, you know. Almost like it doesn't matter what the implications are. We can build this for the sake of building it. We don't have to think about the effect on human society. You know, you as a speech writer, right? You might be thinking about AI in itself in multiple different ways. How can we contend with this technology bringing us into the future in a way that might make gratitude or human connection harder?

Abbie: 28:31

Oh, I think almost like if you go to like watch any podcast, you'll have people on two sides of the AI fence and uh, and so it's kind of like we, it's like, again, like we need that wise middle because, so in gratitude buddies, there's, you know, when in one of the courses there's a day. Dedicated to what do you appreciate about how technology has improved your life? And one of the women approached me afterwards and she said she, the list is so long and it's so immense. And so if like you, if you meditate on something like that, you become aware that it's like endless. But yet she had been like, absolutely. covered with fear about like the radio waves in our house, and it's like, what are we letting dominate our thinking? You know, are we getting so. Fear-based that we make, you know, we turn this or, you know, so I, again, it's not doing things

Lee: 29:32

Huh.

Abbie: 29:32

but it's recognizing all the good that's there, all the potential. That's good. And if it's your space to advocate for, for turning this into a more hu humanistic avenue than to, to be active from a, you know, a wise, empowered. Optimistic space, I think, uh, because it's not gonna be everybody's space to do that, but it will be the space of, of some of us. And so we all have our space where we're contributing. And, um, yeah. So I, I do think there's a danger in getting so afraid of everything, uh, that, that is, that's not good. Yeah.

Lee: 30:11

Yeah. And bringing us back to what you said about, you know, dismantling our ways of thinking, I think that a lot of us are naturally drawn to fear and anxiety in moments of tension and stress. And so helping us, you know, refocus on the opposite and using gratitude as this conscious tool feels more important than ever. And I wonder, Abbie, how can people get involved with gratitude buddies? How can they learn more?

Abbie: 30:40

Well, so I just wanna say two things, is one is that, well, yeah. First thing is that sometimes I would go to gratitude. If so, I'm like, I have my fears and anxieties too. And sometimes something like gratitude is helping and sometimes it's the self empathy of mindfulness and sometimes it is just crying sometimes crying Just helps. That's what the moment calls for. And sometimes even crying shifts that energy or dancing or whatever, shifts that energy so that you can access that gratitude. Because for a lot of times when it can't be accessed, you need other tools to get to it. You may need to

Lee: 31:18

Hmm.

Abbie: 31:18

may need to dance, you may need to run whatever it is that works. So it, it can't, it's not always accessible to us as our, as our first step. but how can people, oh yeah. They can come to gratitude buddies.com and they can sign up for a profile and it says Skill swap, but you can really swap anything or just sign up for a gratitude buddy or a mindful networking. It doesn't have to be for the skill swap, and everybody does have something to offer. If you do want to offer something and there's courses, there's a free course, that's seven days, and I will have a paid version at some point. That will be the 30 days and hopefully more. Specific, uh, uh, gratitude journeys that are designed to people's needs. So for a couple after afternoon baby, things like that, I haven't gotten there yet, but hopefully that's coming.

Lee: 32:11

I love that, Abbie. I love it and I really love being on the platform and just seeing what everyone has to offer, but also there's just this, you know, real comradery and community around knowing that you're with other people who want to give gratitude and want to practice this. And that in itself makes me feel grateful and it starts this real positive feedback loop. It's really powerful.

Abbie: 32:35

Yeah, that's cool.

Lee: 32:37

So.

Abbie: 32:37

you said, you're, you're showing up with these like-minded people and, and you kind of know that, okay, this is a space where I can approach people. That's, that's nice.

Lee: 32:47

It's rare in this moment too, and, and it's not social media too, it's off of social media, which feels really good and like a relief too.

Abbie: 32:58

You don't have to, don't have to update your feed. I

Lee: 33:04

Thank goodness.

Abbie: 33:06

yeah, I would like people to have a space where they could share like what they're working on or what they, but I don't know. We'll keep thinking about that. Yeah.

Lee: 33:15

I just wanna know for you personally, in this moment where the onslaught of the news and everything that we're hearing can feel just completely overwhelming. How are you staying grounded with uncertainty and in uncertain times?

Abbie: 33:34

So I don't at the news that much. I mean, that is one thing. I mean, I, I never watch it. I don't have a television, but I, I, you know, I wanna know what's happening, but I definitely don't, I. Go too deeply into it. One of the things I've started to do recently is sort of reconnect with my deep meditation practice. I haven't been doing it these past days, but for a few weeks I was doing one hour, two hours a day. And I

Lee: 34:02

Wow.

Abbie: 34:02

that's really something. Other than the 10 minutes here or there because you're, you feel like you're getting to a deeper space in the subconscious. So I think a longer meditation gives you a different experience than a short one. And, um, and yeah, I also have to show up for two kids, so I kind of like, I know that,

Lee: 34:25

I know.

Abbie: 34:25

that they are. Sensitive to my feelings. So when I, when I need to cry like I did yesterday, I tell, I tell them the context of why and what's, you know, age appropriate and what's going on and that. I think I even said to my son, I said, I. I haven't been sleeping well and when I sleep well, I can handle small things, but now I haven't. And so it's harder for me to handle them and you know, but for the most part, for me, with the kids, and we, we should be this way for ourselves, it's the 80 20 rule. Like 80% of the time, you know, I'm in a good space so that they can be, they can get that from me. I can't do it a hundred percent, but I can do it 80 more or

Lee: 35:07

Oh, I love that. And it really like takes away the perfectionism to of 80% is, is enough. I'm enough. And you know, it really kind of gives some relief. Sitting with you. Abbie today is just bringing me back to 10 years ago when we first met, and I have not been sitting. In meditation. I've been meditating and practicing mindfulness in so many other ways, but I, it's been quite some time since I've sat and after being with you today. I think I need to sit, I think I need to start going back to that in this moment and just having that deeper stillness and silence. So thank you for that reminder. I'm really grateful to you, Abigail Somma, thanks for everything that you do. Thanks for teaching me about mindfulness and gratitude.

Abbie: 36:02

And thank you. Thank you for

Lee: 36:03

I.

Abbie: 36:04

I mean, this has been such a nice conversation, uh, for me and you've given me the space to share some of these ideas and I really appreciate it. It's really cool.

Lee: 36:13

Thanks, Abbie.