Empathetic Presence

Why Visionaries Matter with Sehreen Noor Ali

• Lee Bonvissuto • Season 1 • Episode 9

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Sehreen Noor Ali came on the podcast, and she shifted how I think about the word "visionary" forever. Turns out, way more of us are visionaries than we might believe.

Sehreen runs Te Cura Labs where she helps leaders think about strategic visibility. But what I love about her is how she sees the world with both curiosity and empathy. Every time I sit down with her, I leave completely shifted.

In this conversation, Sehreen talks about influence as "the marriage of inner clarity and external resonance"—which finally makes this loaded word feel tangible instead of manipulative.

I especially loved our conversation about radicals versus diplomats. How some of us agitate by working within systems, others by standing outside them, and how we desperately need both right now.

We also dove into:

  • Why the gap between how others see us and how we see ourselves is so painful
  • The cost of showing up authentically (and how to navigate it)
  • Why knowing the playbook first actually helps you agitate better
  • How AI is asking us fundamental questions about what it means to be human
  • Why claiming your spot and putting down roots is the key to personal brand

This conversation reminded me that you don't have to be on a TED stage to be a visionary. You just need to see the world differently in a way that others need to understand.

About Sehreen: Sehreen Noor Ali is the founder of Te Cura Labs, where she works with experienced leaders to turn hard-earned insight into clear, strategic visibility. After years spent building startups and working across government and tech, she now helps launch modern leaders into their next chapter—those looking to deepen their influence through resonance, not performance.

Before Te Cura, Sehreen co-founded Sleuth, a pediatric AI company shaped by her journey navigating her daughter’s rare diagnosis. By gathering over 60,000 caregiver-contributed health stories, Sleuth surfaced patterns often missed by clinical systems and was recognized by Fast Company as a World-Changing Idea in 2024. The experience cemented her belief that AI and care—separately and together—can transform systems when surfaced with thoughtfulness and intention.

Earlier in her career, Sehreen served at the U.S. Department of State, where she helped build its first Persian-language digital platforms. She later took on leadership roles in edtech and equity-focused networks, served as an Entrepreneur-in-Residence at Brown University, and leads VC-Backed Moms NYC.

Through Te Cura, Sehreen brings care and clarity to the work of visibility—helping leaders show up fully and intentionally in an AI-saturated world, with depth that’s never diluted for optics and always aligned with ambitious impact.

For more information about Sehreen's work, visit www.tecuralabs.com. 

Hey there. Welcome back to Empathetic Presence. I'm Lee. I am so excited to share my conversation today with Sehreen Noor Ali. Sehreen runs Tecura Labs where she helps leaders think about strategic visibility. My friend Sehreen has always changed the way I see the world. Anytime I sit down with her, I leave completely shifted, and it's because she sees the world with both curiosity and empathy. This conversation with Sehreen shifted the way I think about the word visionary. Sehreen talks about how more of us are visionary than we might believe, and she talks about. Influence as this combination of inner clarity with external resonance, which makes the word so much more tangible than I've ever heard before. I especially loved our conversation about the difference between those of us who are agitators and disruptors or diplomats, and how we have to own our own style in order to move through change moments in our world. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Sehreen Noor Ali. Just as much as I did, enjoy.

Lee:

Welcome to one of my, favorite human beings, Sehreen Noor Ali. Hello.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Hi. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to talk to you.

Lee:

I'm always excited to talk to you and I'm really excited for our listeners to hear what you've been up to, because everything you've worked on since I've known you, has been incredibly aligned and impactful. why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are and how you use your voice Sehreen.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah, I would love I have realized that stories have no beginning and end. So my most recent story where I've used my voice is, um, transitioning from a venture backed, uh, founder of a pediatric AI startup called Sleuth and moving into a, uh, business serving people whose voice I wanna see in the world. And my voice in that process has been primarily as an advocate. I think that is how I've used my voice most of my life. Um, usually for others and particularly for my children, which, you know, and for other children, not just my children. When I started sleuth and now I'm starting to use my voice for myself and applying what I learn to, um, empower other people to use the voice that they have.

Lee:

Helping people bring their voice in the world and the way that you've done that with medical needs parents and kids, that you have done that, as an advocate, as a human being in every community space I've been with you in, and now you're working with founders, entrepreneurs, tell us more.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah, I'm working with people who I wanna see more of in the world who want to take up more space. And these are people that have lived experience. They walk the walk, you could say that they've earned it. You know, they've, they've earned the right to have a perspective out there. They've earned the right for their ideas to be messy and not perfect. They've earned the right to step out of, you know, the stereotype that they might've been playing in and succeeded in, frankly. Um, and where they're exploring what does it mean to, to be living in this world. I mean, we're living in a really. Uncertain world, and I keep meeting people who are too afraid to take the platform and I keep finding myself. I need you to take the platform. I need you to take the platform for yourself, but also for everyone else because the people that are dominating the narratives don't have us in mind. Don't have the rest of us in mind.

Lee:

You're right that word dominating. That's everything. And we see this, you know, in so much of corporate culture, in our national landscape right now, this top down fear-based, dominant leadership that is so boring. Like there's, it's so unoriginal.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

boring, so

Lee:

It's like so boring. These people can't think of anything new and they're so

Sehreen Noor Ali:

no.

Lee:

At leading. They're so

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yes, yes. They're so bad. They're so bad and, and it's interesting'cause like. I think we are in the emergent, I think of your work. I think of some of the, the work of our friends and we are in this emergent space, and I think it's really easy to dismiss the emergent space, but the more I'm in it, the more I wanna put the spotlight on it because people who are in the liminal spaces who are pushing the edges, that creation is gonna become really important because if you. Uh, someone told me, Lee, I, I could not believe this, someone who graduated from the um, from IIT in India, a very prestigious school for technologists, said to me that he regretted getting a computer science degree. My entire career, I have been made to feel non-technical. I've worked a lot of my career in the tech ecosystem. I cannot understand how the world is flipping 180, almost overnight.

Lee:

Yeah.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

so those emergent spaces of redefining everything. Is is everything.

Lee:

Yeah, it is, and it's why those emerging spaces are so under attack and particularly the people who know how to lead from an inclusive and innovative place are being

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Exactly.

Lee:

It's really

Sehreen Noor Ali:

a threat.

Lee:

Exactly. Of course, it reminds me, even when I was in theater, this term, emerging director, it was, you know. And we would be like, who's emerging? We've been doing this work underground for 20 years. We're not emerging. We are here. We are the industry, and yet we're not being spotlighted and

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah.

Lee:

And you know, this what you're talking about, this like taking up space, this rejecting perfectionism, this allowing it to be messy. This. Allowing the emerging to become more centralized. Like what is, what prevents people from taking up that space and being in the spotlight?

Sehreen Noor Ali:

I think we are reaching for an archetype. Um, I think that we, you know, if you have any, if you have any kind of quote unquote difference and all of us do,'cause there's no really such thing as a norm. You're always reaching to, there is a sense of always reaching to be something that you're not. And, and I should say I, and not you, but when I think about my own experience even growing up, I think it's only becoming clear now in my forties that while I had a pretty good childhood, when I think about. What it meant to be who I was in that setting. There was always a stretch of like, oh, but I can be like you. I know I look different, but I can be like you. You don't, I'm not a threat. I can play basketball just like you. I can do all, you know, girl Scouts just like you. And now where I'm sitting. I think that the embodiment of that, I'm becoming much more self-aware of what does it mean to constantly feel, um. Like you're compensating to show someone else. And I'm gonna give a really weird example, super weird example. Um, do you watch, have you ever watched Bollywood movies? Okay. The body type in Bollywood movies has changed dramatically over the past three decades. And so you see this form that maybe you could see was more typical of, you know, south Asian bodies. And now all those bodies look like the bodies you see in western media, right? And it's really trippy. Because those norms get exported and no matter what we're drinking someone else's norms. Right. Like you used to see women, and I'm not saying one is better than the other. All I'm saying is that like kind of natural, authentic ways of being have always been under attack.

Lee:

And that have always skewed western and white, you know, in that dominant, default,

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah. And for people that bridge many cultures. What are you left with? Do you have to pick one or the other, or can you just be yourself against those, those contexts?

Lee:

Yep. Yep. And in this, you know, intersectional way, it's so interesting and you know what you're talking about. I hear a lot with my clients of people wanting more confidence or they want more gravitas or they're really not

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah.

Lee:

with how they are showing up. even this idea of like, I have to sound more professional or I have to sound more precise. Or I can't communicate the way that I want to speak. creates this effort, this disconnect, it becomes almost impossible for them to express themselves and be fully present.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah. Yeah. That's very real. I mean, I have a, my perspective on this is. When I think about what I did at Sleuth, um, I think I, I, I consider myself a little bit naive in the beginning, uh, because I wanted to bring an old playbook that I was familiar with that had a little bit more of an equity, like social justice lens into an ecosystem that had a different playbook. And I came out of that experience a realist about things. And now. A big hypothesis I have is know the playbook and then agitate. I didn't know the playbook before, right? Now I understand the playbook and I know where my points of influence and agitation are. And so even when I think about influence, what I work with on people is like, how do you test the message? Is it gonna hit, is there gonna be market signal? First, we have to make sure that the message feels resonant with you, and then we have to tweak it around the borders to see if the people that you want to, to kind of impact are hearing that message. And so for me, it's marrying how the game works, but making it. Really your own. And so one of the things I really struggled with even a couple years ago was executive presence, which is a term that I've learned a lot from, from you. And, um, I think that I finally have it. And I remember I went somewhere and someone was like. You just have swagger. And it was like one of the nicest compliments I've ever had in my entire life because usually I just am like that over eager person that wants to help everyone, right? Which is like cute, but like I wasn't going for cute. And I, and that really came from being confident in myself. And so I think about how do you marry these things together so that it feels like your own

Lee:

Yeah.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

showing up in the world in a way where you are the first person that you influence and really wholeheartedly understand yourself because if you do, if you do influence on yourself first, the rest comes

Lee:

And that it's coming from this really aligned, authentic place. It's not manipulative. It's, that's so fascinating Sehreen, because I. I just interviewed someone thinking all about conflict, navigation and empathy. And that work always has to start with ourselves too.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah.

Lee:

as well, and it doesn't surprise me and I, so I love this idea

Sehreen Noor Ali:

So I love this idea.

Lee:

knowing where you are and being a realist there. Where am I? Am I in a very top down corporate hierarchical culture?

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah.

Lee:

I in a VC funding world, right? Knowing where you are and then connecting to yourself. And knowing how to influence yourself. Can we talk about this word influence? Because this word I feel is so loaded and

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah.

Lee:

like we're not good at it, or we have to change ourselves to create influ. What does that word mean to you?

Sehreen Noor Ali:

To me, it's the marriage of inner clarity and external resonance. So once you bring self-awareness to yourself, your values, and your work and your expertise, and you codify that in a way that you become really conscious about, then you create the messaging to share with the world about what your ideas and your views are. So it is inner plus outer, and they're both very strategic.

Lee:

Wow. Inner influence, and that's really finding that clarity of what you want to say and who you are.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

It's a mirror. You know, I, um, I was gifted coaching last year, um, from a good friend of mine and I did not ever understand the role of someone mirroring you because I could not see myself the way that people, I. Love me, see myself and I, and I, I feel like that's very relatable. I think a lot of people don't see themselves in the world, uh, the way that others do. And so that inner clarity component requires some sort of mirror, whether it's like using chat GPT in a really innovative way, or, you know, working with someone. I, so I work with really high achieving people who are heart-centered, and I always wondered to myself, is there anything that I can really offer? You know, I, I have my own version of like, everyone is so amazing and what I find really beautiful, I. And sad, like heartbreaking.'cause I, I, I, I don't want people to feel this way, is that there's always a gap in terms of how they really see themselves. They kind of see themselves out there performing this thing and then they're here. And so what is that gap? And, and can they fill it with their own kind of embodiment and acceptance of themselves.

Lee:

Wow. So it's really bringing the entire world closer to us instead of us having to leave ourselves and abandon ourselves, which is a big thing that I see with a lot of

Sehreen Noor Ali:

I love that.

Lee:

Right?

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yes. I love that metaphor. Yep.

Lee:

I talk a lot,

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yep.

Lee:

my clients are in a mode of kind of pushing, proving, projecting, feeling like they have to in order to influential, to have visibility. And it's all about kind of shifting that energy to like welcoming people to you, which is really about

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yes.

Lee:

right?

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yes.

Lee:

What I think is so fascinating, Sehreen, in just thinking about this gap, right? I've known you for a number of years now, and

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah.

Lee:

always say that you were confident, present, had swagger, this term executive presence. Clearly I have very complicated feelings about it, but what I love about you is that. Even when you're on a panel or you're being interviewed and what might be a really high pressure situation, I've always observed that you take your time. It feels like you sit back into yourself. You seem so confident and comfortable in a way that makes other people feel confident and comfortable. And so

Sehreen Noor Ali:

So nice.

Lee:

that gap and the work you've done to that gap is really important.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Thank you. That means a lot. And, and I think there is a, I, I think people like you and me we're okay. We, we can't not show up in the world as we are. It's not in our operating system. And yet. And yet we battle, I battle, sorry, I battle things, uh, you know, and I'm becoming more, um, cognizant of it. So, for example, shame. You know, I had this moment today where I was like, I just, I felt shame. And I was like, where is this coming from? Right? And really digging deep and, and it's, it was such a subconscious trigger to be honest. And I, for me, when I think about the cost of showing up authentically, there has always been a cost. And so I, I can't. Not show up authentic, but it, it comes with a cost to me psychologically. And that is what I see actually a little bit in the people I work with too, because they don't have imposter syndrome and they don't relate to the phrase imposter syndrome. But there is a gap that I'm still trying to name and that I think you named when we were talking about it before, and it it, I keep going back to this word embodiment. And how you feel in your body and how you, in those moments, you know, I, I've now trained myself, like, that's shame. Where do I feel it? And I felt it in my shoulders and I'm like, where is this coming from? You know? And it's coming from this idea to always be liked, you know, I, I've had that so much of my life, you know, I was so shy as a kid and one day my mom was like, look. Your shyness is being misinterpreted as being snobby, and there was nothing worse in the world to me then and now than being considered a snob. And so I overcompensated and I became super friendly to everybody.'cause I cannot stand the idea of being snob. And it's such a, we, you know, I, you, we all hold these things in us of like, how do we present in the world? And so this idea that someone might have thought I was being aggressive or something, I think just triggered something in me, which is like, that's not what you want in the world. You want people to love you, you know?

Lee:

Yeah. And it so comes down to how we're socialized too. And you know, I just, I can't help but think of Alicia Menendez book, the Likability Trap, where, you know, so many femme of center people, and particularly people of color are, you know, damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you want to be too likable, you are. Seen as too warm. If you want to be too direct, you're seen as too strong, and it feels like a losing battle. It's something I call the validation void, you know? And it's like, especially on Zoom in virtual settings, when we're kind of seeking that permission that we're deferring our authority we're seeking that validation. If we're

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah,

Lee:

it, then we're gonna fill it. With something else. And so often, you know, executive leaders are not giving us that warmth, validation, and connection that so many of us

Sehreen Noor Ali:

no,

Lee:

Right.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

no, totally. Those top down leadership models again, right? In which everyone is participating

Lee:

exactly.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

I think it's a really interesting container that everyone's working because I think people are seeking that executive leader to step out just a little bit so that they get permission

Lee:

Yeah.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

to also be more than just the archetype.

Lee:

Exactly, and I find in

Sehreen Noor Ali:

I.

Lee:

with so many executive leaders that far too many are secretly struggling with shame and like the stigma of feeling insecure and never wanting to even show signs of that. And that in

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah.

Lee:

is so harmful and.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

it so funny though, because we're living in an insecure world,

Lee:

Exactly, exactly. so much of our culture doesn't allow space for people to acknowledge that they're struggling. And there's this

Sehreen Noor Ali:

right?

Lee:

and this

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Right.

Lee:

Instances when I've worked with leaders at the highest levels, sometimes people won't even admit to me that they're feeling anxious. Sometimes for an

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah.

Lee:

of working together, and they're in

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Wow.

Lee:

a culture of not being able to admit that they're struggling. The shame and the secrecy is so deep. And how is that rippling throughout their organizations, right?

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Completely, completely.

Lee:

levels of privilege are not creating space in any

Sehreen Noor Ali:

It takes a lot of courage, right? It takes, it takes so much courage. I think that's why I keep going back to the playbook for me, like playing the game. You know, I, I, it's, you know, there's like, there's, have you heard of like the radicals and diplomats framework in terms of there's some people that. I, I probably don't have all the details on it, but it's, but what I, what I taken away from it is like, almost like what's your type of agitation? And I am not a radical. I am completely 100% a diplomat. Um, I'm just a loud diplomat. And so I play the game. And when I play the game, I agitate on the fringes. Like, I just keep moving. Like it's, it's, it's very, my personality, um, and there's some people who, who play and there's different types of people that are gonna agitate in their own way. And so the playbook makes a lot of sense for someone like me. And I work with people that also succeeded in their playbook and now are like, I'm ready to agitate. I'm ready for my next really big, ambitious thing because I've earned my stripes. I know how this system works and I am ready to make it better. Radicals might, might not go in a corporate system or you know, a longstanding institution, they may stand outside and say, this is those pla That's not my paradigm for agitating and making the world better. My paradigm is X And I think it's very liberating to know that not one, one is not better than the other. We work in symbiosis, we work, there's a role for everybody. And where do you have your agency and how do you claim that that space for yourself? And put deep roots. Then I keep having a metaphor in my mind about my, for myself and the, and and for the people that I work with, which is that you're a tree. You have. You have to stand in your spot and really stand there. You cannot, you cannot stand in anyone else's spot.'cause if you're not standing in a spot, you're not putting roots in, you're not creating networks below, you're not touching, you're not giving shade, you're not protecting yourself. You're not letting yourself go through seasons. You have to claim your spot.

Lee:

Claim your spot. it reminds me too, of and you know, I. Was even talking about this with a client two days ago, who, he's an HR leader in England and he's developing for more flexibility in terms of personal needs in moments of

Sehreen Noor Ali:

I love that.

Lee:

know,

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yep.

Lee:

someone's neurodiverse or caring for an aging parent or going through a transition. Right? And I

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yep.

Lee:

to him, you have to be sturdy and stable because what

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah.

Lee:

for is not negotiable. Equity is not negotiable. Right. And what I can hear what you're saying sen, is that, you know, for folks who are choosing to stay within these structures, these cultures that we know are not working for them to be able to move the needle there, there needs to be strength and stability and sturdiness. Right.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

100%. And that sturdiness comes from knowing yourself. I, I, I mean, I will, I will completely. Uh, that is the hill. That's my hill. The sturdiness comes from knowing yourself. If you can stand in your spot and attract the people that need your umbrage and protection on the tree, and other people will go somewhere else. It is the way that things open up and the people that, um, need to come to you do that. And like, I've seen this with my clients, I see this with my clients all the time. When they claim their spot, everything opens up. It's some kind of magical universal law that when you accept yourself for who you are, and as cheesy as it sounds like, you become almost like your own best advocate. It just, everything starts lining up.

Lee:

Can we talk a little about bringing your full self to work in that context? You know, and I've worked with people and particularly underrepresented people and people who've been, you know, really silenced and stifled in these corporate toxic cultures. I've worked with plenty of people who say, I don't wanna bring my full self. They don't deserve my full self. I wanna protect my full self and give them a part of me that I'm deciding to give. How do we create space for protection in these really harmful systems still finding that alignment?

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Such a good question. I mean, I keep going back to the playbook, like, you know, some people that, uh, you know, my daughter was diagnosed with something several years ago and, um, that. Ended up becoming a huge part of the narrative of my startup, but I have never revealed her diagnosis publicly, and I never will. And so I am a huge proponent of share what you wanna share in the way that you want to share it, because you know your psychological safety, you never have to be or perform part of you for anyone else. And so when people s. It, it comes to, to me, it comes down to the self-awareness of what you're doing. If you're participating in a system where you don't feel like you can bring your full self, to me, that's fine. As long as that's a choice you're making. If you are making that choice, that's your choice. Right? Um, and then you will decide if it gets, you know, to the point of being toxic, then, you know, getting help. And everyone has their agency in that. And I think it's part of, you know, I. Burnout is weird, right? So like I was super burnout last year and I thought I wanted to become the equivalent of like a hippie on the beach, having a nomadic lifestyle and you know, all that stuff. And then after I felt like I had rest, I was like, oh, I'm back in the game. I am here. You know, and I'm so glad I went through that because what I thought I wanted, which was to step out of the system completely, is actually not what I wanted. I just wanted as, because I'm a diplomat, I actually wanted to go back and design it the way that I needed, but I couldn't see it'cause I was so burnt out. And so for me. I am a person that need, like I am an entrepreneur at heart. I cannot not be an entrepreneur. So for me, going into a corporate system might have felt like that's not enough of me. That it, it, it's too much, it's too inauthentic. But I'm still playing the game, but it's just in a way that I feel like I can show up in a way that lights me up. Um, and that makes me feel like I'm self-aware about where my boundaries are too.

Lee:

This resonates so deeply because I've been talking to a lot of. People who are maybe getting into organizing or activism for the first time. And really this idea of like, we all have, we all have to do something, but we have to show up in a way that feels safe and comfortable for ourselves and that really, you know, honors what we feel good at and how we want to participate. And I think it's a beautiful thing. I think this is what boundaries means. Like boundaries is a word I keep trying to figure out. And I think what you're articulating is boundaries, is knowing yourself.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

100%. It is the most amazing tool in the toolkit.

Lee:

Yeah. a hard one though,

Sehreen Noor Ali:

It is hard

Lee:

this

Sehreen Noor Ali:

it.

Lee:

what you're talking about with this playbook in general and then this idea of radical, I. Versus diplomat. I'm definitely on the radical side of that and I just wanna

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Right.

Lee:

and in,

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah.

Lee:

where we're seeing like such a failure, not just of leadership, but a failure of, you know, the systems that have been failing people in the society for many, many, many, many generations. Do you think we need or radicals? Revolutionaries

Sehreen Noor Ali:

I think we need both. I think I, I think I am seeing a self-awareness across verticals really open up. I'm seeing the same questions and themes start to emerge, which is, you know, some element of space. How do I get more space in my life? Um, how do we connect with each other more and how do we change things? How do we think about things differently and where are my people? And I'm seeing this like, you know, there's a sub, there's kind of like that, what we see on the news. And then there's the. Huge undercurrent in the subtext that's happening. And a lot of people are starting to break this idea of like, why is this normal? Why is this normal? Why is this normal? And because people are across different verticals, I think the radicals in the diplomats are starting to get on the same wavelength and be a little bit different. And I'll be honest, I want to be a rad. I want to be a radical. Like, there's something about it. Like I love the idea of like blowing stuff up and like whatever. But um, I went to a very liberal arts college and I remember my closest friend was like, you know, we think we're so hippie and all this stuff, which is like everyone that we graduated went into like medicine, banking or something else. And I was like, oh yeah, that's really funny. Um. And I was always like, oh, what a disappointment. But I do think when I meet people, they are agitating in their own space and that's really, really valid. And I think a lot of us are, um, for good reason. I. A little bit more socialized to the institutional side, right? You know, the immigrant experience, safety and a thing. And we need to actually start working with more radicals. I think actually the opportunity is not one or the other, but how do we actually start seeing each other and see that there's common ground? Because typically people who are on, you know, radical are called crazy and people who are diplomats are called sellouts and like that helps nobody.

Lee:

Yeah. Yeah. And even thinking about it in that, you know, black and white binary, as our society is so up to do right, it creates this distance. And I completely agree with you. I

Sehreen Noor Ali:

There's, there's a huge distance. Yeah.

Lee:

Yeah.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

I see this even in my own community, Lee, like I, in my own faith community, it's really fascinating. There, there are younger generations who are holding the older generations of which I am, I am old now. Um, to them. That are like you, you guys are playing in the system. Like what are you doing? Why are you not agitating? Why are you not speaking out on this and why are you doing that? And I kind of look at it like kind of an arm terror sociologist. And it's really interesting because that part of me that wants to be a radical and I was like, like there's also the part of me that's like, you know, there's a history of our community. We had to protect ourselves. We had to. Better ourselves in socioeconomic, you know, in in economic security. And I laugh a little because as like the auntie, I'm happy that they have the privilege to be able to speak out against it. My parents did not. And they don't realize how many generations on whose shoulders they're standing. And so I can see this conflict on some of the Instagram posts. And some people are like, why are you doing this? And I was like. This is an evolution. The fact that you can have radicals and diplomats is a testament to the evolution of a community. And it pains me that there is discord, like there has to be room for all ways to change. And so for me, this idea of influence and thought leadership tends to be for the diplomats

Lee:

Mm.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

because. I have agitated within systems. I, I worked at the State Department. I agitated within that system. I worked in, you know, venture backed ecosystem. I agi agitated in that I was a medical needs mom, you know, in the medical system. Like I agitate to our systems. Like I have that playbook, you know, and I, I think the opportunity is for us to share the playbooks and where we're seeing and to come together a little bit on this.

Lee:

Yeah, absolutely. And to start breaking down some of those, you know, status quo barriers as our friend Christina Blacken talks about. Yeah. And you know, I've heard you talk about the word visionary too, and know. What, what does that word even mean in this context? Do we need visionaries right now? I,

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yes. I think it's less, I think it's actually kind of an equal opportunity word. I don't think, it does not, to me it does not match like being the top of the hill. You know? It doesn't, you don't have to. It's actually, can you see the world differently in a way that we all need to understand? And I think of it, you're gonna laugh at me, but I look at it as like a mycelium node. Like I look at the world, right? And so if one activates. Then that energizes someone else and there's this shared energy and a network that can keep growing. And so I think more people are visionaries than they know. They're not the people on the TED stage, for example. Like I think we have this idea and I really want people to see themselves as people who have earned, earned their stripes, have lived experience, who have a view on the world that if they share, can start igniting not just their vision, but other people's visions too.

Lee:

Wow. And that's, you know, claiming your spot and stepping into the light and taking up space and all of what you're talking about, and even changing the perception of who's a leader, who's an expert, who's a visionary, and really taking these words back.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Completely because those words are all individualistic it, it all presumes individual achievement and individual progress, and we are not going to figure out this era of uncertainty. Through individual achievement, it will only happen with each other. And leadership sounds that way too. You have leadership development programs and Well, no. No. That's not how it's, this thing is gonna work. It's gonna happen by us activating each other and it's spreading.

Lee:

You have been someone who's really influenced me in terms of feeling more comfortable to use AI and to see it as a creative tool and what you said about mycelium and the unseen connections that we all have, and whether that is. Through our connections, our virtual, but even AI is almost creating this mycelium, right, in a way, throughout all of us. And how is this tool something that we can leverage agitate while it's still such an entrenched part of systems that might be harmful or destructive?

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah, I, I, I think that more people, um, need to use it. I think more people that are like you and me, need to start using it because why would we seed this to others? Why would we make the conversation only that AI is like a business first tool versus other things that it can do? Why wouldn't we be part of this moment to claim it for ourselves as well and claim it for. What it can do for us. And I think AI is a really tricky term because we think it's this only, this one thing that it's, it makes us more productive. Sure. And I'm like really good at it and I love it. And it really does. And I think there's an argument to be made that if you are a person who's, I'm a caregiver, I go to a lot of doctor's appointments for my daughter, I need the leverage, I need time. Right. So there's a lot of use cases like that where I think people. Can, and I hope do decide to use it for that. But AI is also asking us to be in a relationship with a literal artificial intelligence. This is a really key point. In 2025, it is not going anywhere. We're literally being asked, what does it mean to be human? When there is a technology that is smarter than us, what does it mean to know ourselves? We are holding on to ideas of being human that we need to drop. We need to drop our obsession with being smart. We need to drop our obsession with being like productive all the time. We need to think about the things that, what does it mean to then care something that AI cannot do? How do we care for each other?

Lee:

Exactly.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Um, how do we actually. You know, I've had life changing conversations with ai. That sounds really funny, but it's actually really true. And so just two days ago at evaluate, I asked, like I had this prompt that I borrowed for someone. Um, and it said things to me that have really changed my self perception. And I showed it to a friend and I showed it to my husband and they're like, oh my God, this is crazy. You know? So there are ways for it to augment our self knowing. And I think we're stuck on right. It it's beautiful. Slightly painful, but also beautiful.

Lee:

you know what? I've been supporting so many leaders in AI for 10 years. My clients are data scientists and data leaders and machine learners, and the people who've been building this. And many of my clients have, you know, really lost the battle of data governance and data ethics within their organizations as well. And

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah.

Lee:

deeply about this and. I've even had people find me through chat, GPT. I've had people tell chat, GPT what they're experiencing, how they can express themselves, and I am the first thing that comes up. I

Sehreen Noor Ali:

How do you feel about that?

Lee:

I think it's amazing because these are some of the most aligned clients I've ever met. I don't know if we would've met otherwise. Incredibly heartfelt leaders in their individual subject matter expertise who. Want to lead with empathy, who want to do this work Sehreen, I am deeply afraid. There was some news that came out that open AI is not actually deleting when you tell it to delete. And they're being tasked from the government to be able to produce

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah,

Lee:

And so is there a limit in terms of how we should be using this technology,

Sehreen Noor Ali:

sure.

Lee:

be telling it, and can it limit our ability to, to be visionary?

Sehreen Noor Ali:

I, I think because I'm a realist, our influence comes from using it.

Lee:

Hmm.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

It, it, it, I mean, we still live in a capitalist world. We need to use it and say what we want. That is the playbook. If you use a product and you give feedback and you say, I'm not gonna put up with this, that is the playbook. So I think we need to start from there. We need to also understand the terms of service when we're using it, and we can run that through chat gpt and saying, how do you use my data? What are the settings I need to do to turn it off, et cetera. Um. Does it limit us to being visionary? No. You know, Lee, I'm really afraid that good people are gonna be left behind because we think about this as a binary situation. We are not in a binary situation. If I could scream that on rooftops, I would scream it. We are not in a binary situation. We lose if we don't start having a relationship with this technology. If people of color, people with disabilities, trans, like, if we don't use this, we are literally giving it away. I,

Lee:

Yeah. And being left out.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

I think worse, frankly, it's not just to being about left out. It's going to, it's gonna be violent.

Lee:

Yeah.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

I don't mean to, I don't mean to like overstate it, but this is, there's a lot at stake. I, and even I, I don't even wanna admit that to myself. Frankly. There is a lot at stake here if people don't start really, I don't wanna say just use it, but be in relationship with it, influence it. We should be influencing. The AI.

Lee:

There's that word again, influence. And in order to influence, we have to, you know, have that alignment in ourselves. And I really love that, the clarity of that, that inner clarity that you talked about, because I think if more of us had that inner clarity, we would be unstoppable.

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Yeah, and the clarity and, and the ability or desire or confidence to share that inner clarity because. You and I are so fortunate to know so many people that have inner clarity have a very strong sense of self. It's that it's, it's that rest of it. Will you please share it with me? Will you please put your views out in the world? Can I please know you that I feel like I'm working? You know, I have this really amazing client who's created a tremendous business that's just impacted social connection and sometimes I find myself asking them to. Please share like the playbook on how you did that. Other people need to know that playbook because the amount of courage it takes to know yourself, a lot of people have not yet developed yet. So if you are already willing to know yourself and, and really say, this is who I am, you, we can all guide each other through this process, but we have to be willing to share what we think, especially when it's not perfect.

Lee:

And what you just said. If, if we can have the courage to know ourselves and that I feel like is everything, and that's what I think. You've been doing since way before you started this current venture. I remember the first time I sat down with you one-on-one, I could feel that of just this comfort this courage to know ourselves. And I'm so thrilled that you're doing this work right now in this moment of helping people find their spot and claim their spot because it's really, really important. it needs, it needs to be here in the world. So you so much for

Sehreen Noor Ali:

Well, likewise, I, I mean, you've been a huge inspiration as you developed your business, and I got to see it from the early days, and I think that's a testament to we need to see each other. Like, you have inspired me. You have shown me that it's possible to be your full self and you can evolve and you can. Just be and still have a business that can serve other people. And so I hope if your listeners hear that, it encourages them. Like you've been a huge example of like, I can do it too. You know? I,

Lee:

Hmm. To see ourselves and to see each other. Uh, Thank you, my friend. Thank you, Sehreen.

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Lee Bonvissuto

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